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No minutes were taken off this meeting, but here are the irc logs.

<pre> Jun 10 11:42:43 <nessy> meeting in 2hrs20 ? Jun 10 11:43:21 <fishkandy> yupx0rs! Jun 10 11:43:30 <nessy> roxors Jun 10 12:04:19 <jmworx> can't make it Jun 10 12:21:34 <nessy> :( Jun 10 12:21:50 <nessy> jmworx: when are you going back to Canada? Jun 10 12:43:27 * fishkandy has quit ("Fish!") Jun 10 12:55:09 <jmworx> nessy: Flying on the 23rd, though we'll spend the last week in a hotel Jun 10 13:03:42 * fishkandy (n=conrad@61.194.21.25) has joined #annodex Jun 10 13:06:11 * fishkandy is now known as kfish Jun 10 13:50:28 <mdale> I always forget... #anxassoc? Jun 10 13:50:56 <mdale> that's not it... Jun 10 13:59:14 <kfish> mdale, nah, this meeting is right here Jun 10 13:59:33 <mdale> ah oky ;) Jun 10 14:00:02 <johnf> mdale: did you have a chance to sort out copyright for metavid? Jun 10 14:00:06 <nessy> public meeting today :) Jun 10 14:01:58 <nessy> ok, shall we get started? Jun 10 14:02:36 <mdale> johnf: how should I sort out ? just put a copyright michael dale / (included libraries have their own license?) in a COPYRIGHT text file in the root? Jun 10 14:03:01 <nessy> what license? Jun 10 14:03:05 <nessy> MIT? Jun 10 14:03:07 <johnf> mdale: yeah that would be fine Jun 10 14:03:16 <johnf> ie just put it in COPYING above the license Jun 10 14:03:17 <mdale> GPL2 ... cuz its tied in with mediaWiki Jun 10 14:03:21 <mdale> oky Jun 10 14:03:36 <johnf> actually let me just check how mediawiki guys do it Jun 10 14:04:58 <mdale> I will copy from them ;) Jun 10 14:05:26 <johnf> mdale: ok in every file you know how you have @author Jun 10 14:05:33 <johnf> just add * @copyright Copyright 2005, var Arnfjr Bjarmason Jun 10 14:05:56 <nessy> heh Jun 10 14:05:59 <johnf> or similar :) Jun 10 14:06:02 <mdale> oky Jun 10 14:06:38 <nessy> ok - why don't we "start" with updates on Metavidwiki then? ;-) Jun 10 14:07:15 <nessy> mdale: any news you'd like to share/discuss? Jun 10 14:07:39 <mdale> ah... hmm Jun 10 14:07:59 <mdale> rolled out some updates recently remote embedding is working better in IE now ;) Jun 10 14:08:08 <nessy> nice! Jun 10 14:08:15 <nessy> javascript updates? Jun 10 14:08:22 <mdale> http://metavid-mike.blogspot.com/ Jun 10 14:08:25 <mdale> yea Jun 10 14:09:11 <mdale> the little "CC" in the upper left .. pulls in CMML tracks listed in the ROE xml. Jun 10 14:09:20 <mdale> upper right I mean Jun 10 14:09:44 <nessy> cool Jun 10 14:10:06 <nessy> what are they? Jun 10 14:10:16 <nessy> the full file or related snippets? Jun 10 14:10:17 * johnf has quit (Remote closed the connection) Jun 10 14:10:51 <nessy> oh - the text transcript of the excerpt? Jun 10 14:10:52 <mdale> all CMML can be queried with time stamp requests so its just the CMML for the time range of the video that has been embed. Jun 10 14:11:00 <nessy> that's totally awesome! Jun 10 14:11:15 * johnf (n=johnf@203-158-51-218.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #annodex Jun 10 14:12:19 <nessy> cortado on my mac has a problem with the sound, btw Jun 10 14:12:28 <nessy> it is very stuttery Jun 10 14:12:37 <nessy> is anyone still working on cortado? Jun 10 14:13:56 <mdale> wikipedia fork is more maintained than the fluendo one. Jun 10 14:14:39 <nessy> how's your summer of code student coming along? Jun 10 14:16:00 <mdale> the one working on flash support is doing well... Jun 10 14:16:16 <nessy> cool Jun 10 14:16:24 <mdale> the xiph one.. no so much ...had a family emergency of some sort Jun 10 14:16:36 <mdale> but should be back on board this week.. I will keep you all updated Jun 10 14:16:50 <nessy> does that go into the core codebase or in a branch? Jun 10 14:17:02 <mdale> the flash stuff? Jun 10 14:17:07 <nessy> yea Jun 10 14:18:17 <nessy> btw: the NSW government project doesn't seem to get much support for using metavidwiki - it seems that politicians profoundly dislike recording of government sittings Jun 10 14:18:31 <nessy> so they dislike such a flexible publication and re-use platform Jun 10 14:18:42 <nessy> it will probably not happen from within government Jun 10 14:18:48 <mdale> yea... I can't imagine our government funding our work ;) Jun 10 14:19:08 <nessy> however, the streams are being published and the transcripts, too, so anybody could set it up if they liked Jun 10 14:19:16 <kfish> nessy, just tell them it let's them post-edit their speeches Jun 10 14:19:27 <nessy> I tried ;) Jun 10 14:19:33 <kfish> lol Jun 10 14:20:10 <nessy> mdale: just briefly on the cortado thing - is there a bug tracker for the wikipedia fork? Jun 10 14:20:22 <nessy> heya kfish, btw ! Jun 10 14:20:24 * nessy waves Jun 10 14:20:51 <kfish> heya nessy! Jun 10 14:21:19 <mdale> nessy: yea... j^ put some bug/patches in there.... the flash stuff is being committed as stubs..but I will set up an experimental branch tomorrow since its too precarious to have the live site and development on the same svn now days. Jun 10 14:21:35 * nessy nods Jun 10 14:21:44 <mdale> j^ put some (bug reports) not new bugs ;) Jun 10 14:21:53 <nessy> lol Jun 10 14:22:03 <nessy> got a link? Jun 10 14:22:11 * nessy wants to add some bug reports, too Jun 10 14:23:05 <mdale> https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=cortado Jun 10 14:23:13 <nessy> thanks! Jun 10 14:23:31 <nessy> johnf: wanna give an update on debian packaging? Jun 10 14:24:07 <johnf> so the latest version of liboggz is in debian sid and ubuntu intrepid Jun 10 14:24:09 <johnf> http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=liboggz Jun 10 14:24:22 <kfish> word Jun 10 14:24:29 <johnf> and now that I read that page its even made it into testing Jun 10 14:24:42 <johnf> I have packages for fishsound and some others Jun 10 14:24:45 <denisc> awesome - goes to upgrade... Jun 10 14:24:50 <johnf> http://inodes.org/debs Jun 10 14:25:01 <johnf> http://inodes.org/johnf/debs that should be Jun 10 14:25:18 <johnf> but I'm waitong on jaq to get back from brazil so he can get to his gpg key and upload them Jun 10 14:25:33 <johnf> Have also now packaged metavidwiki and semantic mediawiki Jun 10 14:25:50 <johnf> they are waiting on copyright notices from upstream before they go in Jun 10 14:26:07 <nessy> upstream==mdale - lol Jun 10 14:26:31 <johnf> thats about it Jun 10 14:26:39 <johnf> I did want to discuss mod_annodex though Jun 10 14:26:58 <johnf> kfish: oggzchop currently supports chopping of one ogg file via CGI right? Jun 10 14:27:17 <kfish> johnf: yes! Jun 10 14:27:37 <johnf> kfish: Is the plan to ditch mod_annodex and extend oggzchop? Jun 10 14:27:41 <kfish> but it's not in a release version yet Jun 10 14:27:51 <kfish> hmm, that's a possible plan Jun 10 14:27:57 <kfish> though oggz-chop doesn't do anything with cmml yet Jun 10 14:27:57 <johnf> I think its a good idea Jun 10 14:28:11 <johnf> sure but it could :) Jun 10 14:28:13 <kfish> yeah i think it's a good idea too, performance-wise :-) Jun 10 14:28:15 <kfish> yeah Jun 10 14:28:15 <johnf> although might need a rename Jun 10 14:28:32 <kfish> if the cmml was already in an ogg stream it would work ;-) Jun 10 14:28:55 <johnf> I'm thinking you merge oggzchop oggzmerge and oggzplit throw in some ROE and you've replace mod_annodex Jun 10 14:29:03 <kfish> yeah pretty much Jun 10 14:29:26 <kfish> so a good plan would be to get all the tools code and put that in a library Jun 10 14:29:59 <johnf> wait we could call it libannodex !! Jun 10 14:30:07 <nessy> nooooo Jun 10 14:30:08 <mdale> I don't think muxing big rarely changing video files with small constantly changing CMML files is a good default... I mean its should just be an export format or something you do in archival not for every-day-streams IMHO Jun 10 14:30:48 <johnf> true but leave that up to the user/admin Jun 10 14:30:57 <johnf> the tools should still support it Jun 10 14:31:04 <mdale> yea for sure Jun 10 14:31:17 <johnf> since at the end of the day it could be muxng the video stream with the language audio stream you want Jun 10 14:31:26 <mdale> right ... Jun 10 14:32:08 <nessy> so that's about dynamically muxing any logical bitstream, not just cmml Jun 10 14:32:55 <johnf> so thats all from me Jun 10 14:33:22 <nessy> kfish? Jun 10 14:33:33 <nessy> what've you been up to? Jun 10 14:33:36 <nessy> how's Japan? Jun 10 14:33:40 <kfish> hey Jun 10 14:33:43 <kfish> yeah, japan is great ... Jun 10 14:34:03 <kfish> i'Ve been kinda busy with my new job, which is all good Jun 10 14:34:21 <kfish> as part of that i've been hacking on the ogg/vorbis elements for openmax Jun 10 14:34:23 <kfish> bellagio.sf.net Jun 10 14:34:33 <mdale> yea japan is great ;) Jun 10 14:34:49 <nessy> gives me an error Jun 10 14:34:55 <nessy> mdale: still in japan? Jun 10 14:34:57 <mdale> no Jun 10 14:35:16 <kfish> http://omxil.sourceforge.net/ Jun 10 14:35:16 <nessy> how was the trip? Jun 10 14:35:18 <mdale> just reminiscing ... Jun 10 14:35:40 <nessy> time flies... Jun 10 14:35:46 <nessy> kfish: looks like a cool project Jun 10 14:35:53 <kfish> it is Jun 10 14:36:06 <kfish> openmax is kinda a more lightweight, better structured version of gstreamer Jun 10 14:36:10 <nessy> finding any issues with the low-level stuff? Jun 10 14:36:30 <kfish> just doing random cleanups etc. Jun 10 14:36:58 <kfish> part of the project involves tying it to our hardware encoder/decoder chips Jun 10 14:37:06 <kfish> and part involves making demo apps Jun 10 14:37:31 <kfish> so i'll probably do something like generalize liboggplay to use openmax components Jun 10 14:37:49 <nessy> oh! Jun 10 14:38:31 <kfish> and if i have time i'll try to get some more general xiph components going Jun 10 14:38:42 <nessy> awesome Jun 10 14:38:44 <kfish> as currently there is an integrated ogg-vorbis component Jun 10 14:38:55 <kfish> but no separate ogg container component, or theora, speex etc. Jun 10 14:40:00 <nessy> any use for annotations? Jun 10 14:40:15 <kfish> not for that job, but probably for thesis work ..... Jun 10 14:40:23 <kfish> i was talking with mdale about hacking on metavid Jun 10 14:40:34 <nessy> sounds awesome Jun 10 14:40:52 <kfish> yeah, just getting ideas together atm for that Jun 10 14:41:57 <nessy> trying to publish recordings of the japanese parliament sittings? Jun 10 14:42:25 <kfish> haha, we had a great conversation with my professor about that Jun 10 14:42:35 <kfish> mdale did a presentation here Jun 10 14:42:45 <nessy> cool!! Jun 10 14:42:51 <kfish> and the professor noted that the US parliamentary videos are really boring Jun 10 14:43:02 <kfish> apparently there's more fist-fights in the japanese parliament Jun 10 14:43:02 <mdale> the person working on the flash piece is working on dance and performance rehearsal tagging ;) ... (so not all government tracking) Jun 10 14:43:29 <mdale> yea the English Parliament gets more action too. Jun 10 14:43:31 <nessy> mdale: parliament is the obvious one with high impact Jun 10 14:43:45 <mdale> yea totally ;) Jun 10 14:43:49 <nessy> I'm half thinking of setting one up here in my non-existant spare time Jun 10 14:43:51 <nessy> ;) Jun 10 14:43:59 <nessy> fist-fights!! Jun 10 14:44:06 * nessy shakes head Jun 10 14:44:14 <nessy> do they have women in the Japanese parliament? Jun 10 14:44:29 <nessy> anyway... Jun 10 14:44:36 <kfish> i think that would require giving women any respect at all in the first place Jun 10 14:44:40 <kfish> anyway ... Jun 10 14:44:47 * nessy nods gravely Jun 10 14:44:56 <nessy> that's the feeling I had about Japan, too Jun 10 14:44:58 <nessy> anyway... Jun 10 14:45:11 <nessy> denisc: do you have any news to share? Jun 10 14:45:23 <denisc> Not much - two things Jun 10 14:45:36 <denisc> firstly we have someone to work on tagging material again in second semester Jun 10 14:46:11 <denisc> secondly I am wondering whether I should abandon arkaiv and try for a mediawiki install instead Jun 10 14:46:21 <denisc> Not in the short term though - too much stuff in the database Jun 10 14:47:33 <denisc> Oh - and a third thing... Jun 10 14:48:08 <nessy> yeah - the guys from Melbourne and PARADISEC are considering moving from cmmlwiki to metavidwiki Jun 10 14:48:13 <nessy> I think it makes a lot of sense Jun 10 14:48:44 <denisc> OK - cool - be better to share resources and user experiences I guess Jun 10 14:49:16 <nessy> what's the third thing? I'm curious... Jun 10 14:49:56 <denisc> Oh - a workshop in Honiara in sept to work on local independent recording - hope to demo and maybe set up a local arkaiv (or mediawiki!) Jun 10 14:50:22 <denisc> metavidwiki sorry... Jun 10 14:50:46 <mdale> sounds cool :) Jun 10 14:51:09 <nessy> very cool Jun 10 14:51:26 <denisc> Yeah - it'd be a good test as there'd be no remote net connection so it'd have to "just work" for a while... Jun 10 14:51:38 <nessy> John just suggested we should deprecate cmmlwiki and instead suggest to people to use metavidwiki Jun 10 14:51:53 <nessy> might be worth a sentence on the website... Jun 10 14:52:00 <kfish> i wasn't aware anyone was still using cmmlwiki! Jun 10 14:52:17 <nessy> yeah... Jun 10 14:52:24 <nessy> or recommending it... Jun 10 14:52:29 <nessy> CSIRO recently did... Jun 10 14:52:36 <denisc> We can deprecate (again as kfish points out if anyone else is using it) arkaiv too but I'd need to convert everything across first Jun 10 14:53:17 <nessy> I'm just thinking about a one-line notice on the website Jun 10 14:53:33 <nessy> saying how much cooler metavidwiki is ;) Jun 10 14:53:49 <nessy> is anyone else around? MikeS? Jun 10 14:54:52 <nessy> doublec? Jun 10 14:54:57 <nessy> j^? Jun 10 14:55:07 <jmworx> I'm partially around now Jun 10 14:55:09 <nessy> I have done nothing in the last weeks Jun 10 14:55:22 <nessy> for Annodex :) Jun 10 14:55:26 <nessy> I have been planning FOMS Jun 10 14:55:41 <nessy> got in contact with the Mozilla Foundation to see if they'd provide some funding again Jun 10 14:55:52 <nessy> and a few other things, such as getting a room Jun 10 14:56:01 <nessy> other than that, I am still waiting to find time for ROE Jun 10 14:56:21 <nessy> but I have proof-read the latest RFC and put a wiki page into xiph Jun 10 14:56:35 <nessy> http://wiki.xiph.org/index.php/MIMETypesCodecs Jun 10 14:56:42 <nessy> took a while to research those buggers Jun 10 14:57:07 <nessy> on that note: kfish - you might be able to put Dirac support into liboggz Jun 10 14:57:19 <nessy> since the header format seems to be finalized now Jun 10 14:57:43 <kfish> yeah ... i had a discussion with ralph and ds about that a few weeks ago Jun 10 14:57:48 <kfish> i think ralph mentioned he might do it Jun 10 14:57:53 <kfish> so i took it off my list ;-) Jun 10 14:57:56 <nessy> ah ok Jun 10 14:57:58 <nessy> fair enough Jun 10 14:58:07 <kfish> yeah, someone should Jun 10 14:58:16 <kfish> tho i'm not even sure what tool to use to make files with Jun 10 14:58:21 <nessy> jmworx, everyone: you might want to check if I wrote the correct spec into that wiki page Jun 10 14:58:34 <nessy> kfish: that is a very good question Jun 10 14:58:44 <mdale> on a technical note: I had to remove a pointer to http://svn.annodex.net/standards/roe/roe_1_0.xsd because IE parser dies when opening it Jun 10 14:58:57 <nessy> the schroedinger stuff does it, I think Jun 10 14:58:58 <kfish> nessy, afaiu it's a matter of using a gstreamer pipeline, not sure how else Jun 10 14:59:15 <nessy> mdale: any bug reports? :-) Jun 10 14:59:30 <jmworx> nessy: The "CELT " and "Speex " strings only show one space Jun 10 14:59:31 <nessy> I'll give it a whirl - thanks for noticing Jun 10 14:59:56 <johnf> to create an ogg dirac file you need to use gstreamer and libschrodingr. But they use the old dirac spec and the old ogg->dirac mapping Jun 10 14:59:56 <nessy> jmworx: that would be mediawiki removing my spaces Jun 10 15:00:07 <johnf> libdirac and dirac_encode will create you a raw dirac file Jun 10 15:00:18 <jmworx> yeah, that's what i guessed Jun 10 15:02:12 <nessy> I'll see if I can persuade mediawiki to display all the spaces Jun 10 15:02:16 <nessy> thanks for noticing Jun 10 15:02:24 <nessy> jmworx: any further news? Jun 10 15:02:36 <jmworx> nessy: Nothing new Jun 10 15:04:22 <nessy> how's CELT coming along? Jun 10 15:04:54 <jmworx> slowly, but surely... Jun 10 15:04:59 <jmworx> It's already quite usable Jun 10 15:05:00 <nessy> noice Jun 10 15:05:10 <jmworx> thought the bit-stream hasn't been frozen. Jun 10 15:05:26 <jmworx> I did some listening tests and submitted a journal paper on it Jun 10 15:05:37 <nessy> yeah - sorry I didn't find time to take part Jun 10 15:05:50 <nessy> hope it gets accepted ! Jun 10 15:05:55 <jmworx> me too :-) Jun 10 15:06:08 <jmworx> results of the test are at http://www.celt-codec.org/comparison/ Jun 10 15:06:49 <jmworx> with a few comments on my blog http://jmspeex.livejournal.com/3839.html Jun 10 15:08:36 <nessy> cool Jun 10 15:08:40 <jmworx> Good news is that CELT unexpectedly came up ahead (or equal in one case) of all other codecs. Jun 10 15:08:51 <nessy> that's awesome Jun 10 15:08:57 <jmworx> s/codecs/low-delay codecs/ since Vorbis wasn't tested Jun 10 15:13:21 <nessy> ok - if we have no more things to discuss, I close the meeting and open the room back to general discussion :) Jun 10 15:14:46 <kfish> w00t! </pre>