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No official minutes were taken at this meeting, but here is the irc log.

<pre> Nov 11 14:04:12 <nessy> hi everybody Nov 11 14:04:23 <nessy> it's time for the public annodex committee meeting Nov 11 14:04:29 <nessy> who's here to take part? Nov 11 14:04:51 <nessy> Agenda: Nov 11 14:04:59 <nessy> 1. Update on projects Nov 11 14:05:05 <nessy> 2. Update on standards Nov 11 14:05:10 <nessy> 3. Update on collaborations Nov 11 14:05:17 <nessy> 4. Update on FOMS Nov 11 14:05:17 <nessy> 5. Time/Location for AGM Nov 11 14:05:17 <nessy> 6. Other business Nov 11 14:06:24 <kfish> 7. The Larch Nov 11 14:06:50 <nessy> purserj, MikeS, shans - any of you here? Nov 11 14:06:52 <nessy> hi kfish!! Nov 11 14:07:01 * mdale :No such nick/channel Nov 11 14:07:20 <nessy> seems mdale and dennisc can't make it Nov 11 14:07:48 <nessy> anyone non-committee here to participate? :-) Nov 11 14:08:10 <doublec> i'm here Nov 11 14:08:37 <nessy> heya! Nov 11 14:08:48 <nessy> awesome - we can have a chat amongst us :) Nov 11 14:09:01 <nessy> let's get started so I can get some lunch Nov 11 14:09:08 <nessy> 1. Update on projects Nov 11 14:09:34 <nessy> wiking are you here, too? Nov 11 14:09:54 <nessy> liboggplay seems to get towards a maintainer Nov 11 14:10:11 <nessy> I'm very happy that wiking is getting so active Nov 11 14:10:24 <nessy> doublec - wanna give an update on firefox etc Nov 11 14:10:38 <nessy> ? Nov 11 14:10:41 <doublec> yep Nov 11 14:10:53 <doublec> Support for Theora and Vorbis playback is steaming ahead. Nov 11 14:11:06 <doublec> FF beta 2 is coming out soon Nov 11 14:11:17 <doublec> there's been a lot of discussion on cross domain restriction of video Nov 11 14:11:20 <doublec> but nothing decided yet Nov 11 14:11:25 <doublec> a thread on WHATWG list has started Nov 11 14:11:43 * Magical_Musings (n=pinkduck@cpe-76-184-143-198.tx.res.rr.com) has joined #annodex Nov 11 14:11:45 <doublec> That's about it I think Nov 11 14:11:54 * Magical_Musings (n=pinkduck@cpe-76-184-143-198.tx.res.rr.com) has left #annodex Nov 11 14:12:06 <nessy> wiking fixed the yuv2rgb bug, right? Nov 11 14:12:15 <purserj> nessy: I'm here but am about to leave sorry Nov 11 14:12:29 <nessy> purserj: no worries Nov 11 14:12:37 <nessy> I might send an irclog Nov 11 14:12:55 <nessy> and a whole list of new bugs has been discovered Nov 11 14:13:02 <doublec> nessy, it's fixed for the non-optimized case Nov 11 14:13:15 <doublec> but iirc there may be a problem for the optimized solution Nov 11 14:13:21 <doublec> but I don't use that, so it doesn't affect me Nov 11 14:13:28 <nessy> cool Nov 11 14:13:39 <nessy> I do think wiking's your man now Nov 11 14:13:41 <doublec> fuzz testing has started on all the third party libraries too Nov 11 14:13:49 <doublec> so there may be bugs related to that popping up Nov 11 14:14:03 * denisc (n=dcrowdy@knakazawa.mdlang.mq.edu.au) has joined #annodex Nov 11 14:14:09 <nessy> hi denisc! Nov 11 14:14:17 <denisc> Hi! Sorry I'm late :) Nov 11 14:14:39 <nessy> third party libraries - such as libtheora, libvorbis, libogg and liboggz Nov 11 14:14:40 <nessy> ? Nov 11 14:15:03 <doublec> libtheora, libvorbis, libogg, liboggz, libfishsound, liboggplay Nov 11 14:15:11 <nessy> cool Nov 11 14:15:30 <nessy> is it important for you that regular releases are made of liboggplay or is svn enough for you? Nov 11 14:15:38 <doublec> svn is fine Nov 11 14:15:50 <nessy> cool Nov 11 14:16:23 <nessy> kfish: over to you - liboggz, oggz-tools etc Nov 11 14:16:34 <kfish> right Nov 11 14:16:37 <MikeS> here, sorry Nov 11 14:16:59 <nessy> hi MikeS - awesome! now we have 4 committee members! Nov 11 14:17:04 <kfish> random maintenance i guess, mostly on oggz-chop and recently on libannodex also Nov 11 14:17:12 <nessy> (5 with purserj) Nov 11 14:17:38 <nessy> yeah - I was wondering about that Nov 11 14:17:48 <kfish> i guess it's about time for a liboggz release Nov 11 14:18:02 <nessy> I thought you were going to abandon libannodex Nov 11 14:18:12 <nessy> why the fixes? Nov 11 14:18:25 <kfish> i was hacking up a test browser recently for playing with opensearch Nov 11 14:18:59 <kfish> which i've implemented before in cmmlwiki, so i was testing against that Nov 11 14:19:33 <kfish> and the presentation time and startgranules weren't getting written into skeleton, so i fixed that in libannodex Nov 11 14:20:00 <nessy> how are the plans to combine oggz-chop, oggz-rip, oggz-merge into a media server? Nov 11 14:20:02 <kfish> the code's not so bad, once i throw half of it away and rewrite the other half ;-) Nov 11 14:20:14 <nessy> lol Nov 11 14:20:32 <kfish> so, basically that will involve putting some of those tool functions into liboggz Nov 11 14:20:42 <kfish> so that they are easier to combine (like they are in hogg) Nov 11 14:21:20 <kfish> i'm writing up some notes about ogg chopping also of course (for lca etc.) Nov 11 14:21:31 <nessy> using oggz-chop? Nov 11 14:21:44 <kfish> which? Nov 11 14:22:12 <nessy> well, I guess I am a bit confused as to what we should recommend people to use for chopping on their servers Nov 11 14:22:16 <kfish> well, just what the process is and how oggz-chop does it, yeah Nov 11 14:22:21 <kfish> oggz-chop! Nov 11 14:22:30 <kfish> is the fastest Nov 11 14:22:51 <nessy> so to get an all-competent media server, what is the plan? Nov 11 14:22:59 * Magical_Musings (n=pinkduck@cpe-76-184-143-198.tx.res.rr.com) has joined #annodex Nov 11 14:23:18 <kfish> well, that depends what you mean by "all-competent" Nov 11 14:23:23 * Magical_Musings (n=pinkduck@cpe-76-184-143-198.tx.res.rr.com) has left #annodex Nov 11 14:23:36 <nessy> the track extraction and recomposition using ROE etc Nov 11 14:23:41 <kfish> right Nov 11 14:24:06 <nessy> is it best to write that with a combination of oggz-chop, oggz-rip, oggz-merge? Nov 11 14:24:32 <nessy> and thus we totally throw away mod_annodex? Nov 11 14:24:42 <kfish> it could be done with those and a bunch of scripts, but that would be sucky Nov 11 14:25:24 <kfish> well, if our aim is to support ROE server-side (for constructing a multiplexed stream), then mod_annodex isn't really relevant anyway Nov 11 14:25:50 * nessy nods Nov 11 14:25:59 <nessy> yeah, I guess new code is needed anyway Nov 11 14:26:18 <doublec> will oggz-chop support byte range requests? Nov 11 14:26:28 <kfish> probably what i'll do is prototype it with hogg, which will be cleaner, then re-implement in C in liboggz Nov 11 14:26:38 <kfish> doublec, yes, that's definitely the plan Nov 11 14:26:43 <doublec> cool! Nov 11 14:27:00 <nessy> maybe we should adopt the new media fragments draft as soon as it's out and develop towards that Nov 11 14:27:41 <kfish> nessy, that relates to URI syntax? Nov 11 14:27:41 <nessy> which is very similar to our original plans for time range requests Nov 11 14:27:44 <nessy> yes Nov 11 14:28:00 <nessy> and to web proxy support with byte ranges and all Nov 11 14:28:21 * kfish wonders where this draft is Nov 11 14:28:21 <nessy> doublec: are there plans to support the byte ranges in firefox? Nov 11 14:28:35 <doublec> nessy, firefox already does Nov 11 14:28:47 <nessy> kfish: it's developing here http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/Main_Page Nov 11 14:28:50 <doublec> seeking works using byte range requests Nov 11 14:28:53 <nessy> (see my blog post from yesterday) Nov 11 14:28:58 <kfish> ok! Nov 11 14:29:08 <nessy> doublec: that's awesome! Nov 11 14:29:20 <nessy> how do you map time to bytes in the browser? Nov 11 14:29:44 <nessy> i.e. if somebody hit's a time offset for playback, how do you map that to bytes? Nov 11 14:29:56 <nessy> a rough guess based on file lenght and bitrate? Nov 11 14:30:28 <nessy> or are you talking about the case where you do it all client side? Nov 11 14:30:43 <doublec> nessy, I use liboggz to do the seeking Nov 11 14:31:01 <nessy> ah, so it's only for the case where you have already received all the data Nov 11 14:31:02 <doublec> but the i/o is done with byte range requests Nov 11 14:31:06 <doublec> instead of file i/o Nov 11 14:31:15 <doublec> unless it's a local file on the disk of course Nov 11 14:31:22 <doublec> nessy, no, it doesn't need all the data Nov 11 14:31:37 <doublec> so if a seek request is made by the user for time position 30s Nov 11 14:31:41 <doublec> I ask libogg play for this Nov 11 14:31:47 <doublec> it makes a guess at a byte position Nov 11 14:31:53 <doublec> I do a http byte range request and return that data Nov 11 14:31:59 <doublec> based on that liboggz does more guesses, etc Nov 11 14:32:17 <nessy> I see - it is thus based on the guesswork Nov 11 14:32:25 <doublec> When the video is first loaded I actually seek to the end via byte range requests to get the duration too Nov 11 14:32:38 <doublec> yes Nov 11 14:32:39 <nessy> via byte range requests - wow! Nov 11 14:32:47 <nessy> do you have that documented somewhere? Nov 11 14:32:48 <kfish> do you have those byte-range requests hooked up as OggzIO callbacks? Nov 11 14:32:58 <nessy> that would be really important for me to share with the W3C guys Nov 11 14:33:48 <doublec> kfish, the OggzIO callbacks are hooked up to liboggplay Nov 11 14:33:56 <doublec> which calls it's own 'readers' Nov 11 14:34:09 <doublec> We have a 'reader' implementation that uses the firefox network api Nov 11 14:34:15 <kfish> ah cool, got it Nov 11 14:34:34 <kfish> that's pretty neat Nov 11 14:34:57 <doublec> which basically uses this class http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/file/5dfdad637696/content/media/video/src/nsMediaStream.cpp Nov 11 14:35:24 <doublec> which optimizes for local file usage vs http usage Nov 11 14:35:36 <doublec> the plan is to detect if the file is in the browser cache and use fast file seeks in that case Nov 11 14:35:40 <doublec> but it's not implemented yet Nov 11 14:35:58 <nessy> oh I see - you're doing the seeking over the network with built-in guesswork Nov 11 14:36:06 <doublec> yes Nov 11 14:36:08 <kfish> heh, sounds like fun Nov 11 14:36:24 <nessy> doesn't that - like - create a lot of network requests for one seek? Nov 11 14:36:50 <MikeS> only if you want accurate seeking! Nobody cares about accurate seeking. Nov 11 14:37:50 <doublec> nessy, yes, it can do a few Nov 11 14:37:52 <nessy> any stats on how many network connections you're getting per seek? Nov 11 14:38:17 <doublec> if the guesses are good, less than 10 Nov 11 14:38:24 <nessy> (cause: I spoke to TBL when I was in France and he is really concerned about Web proxies doing more than one roundtrip to get the fragment data) Nov 11 14:38:26 <kfish> is it re-using a persistent connection? Nov 11 14:38:30 <doublec> in practice it works fairly fast Nov 11 14:38:56 <doublec> it should do Nov 11 14:39:01 <doublec> there are issues that need to be resolved Nov 11 14:39:12 <doublec> like if a malicious web server serves a different file on the byte range request Nov 11 14:39:19 <doublec> maybe it can do some sort of exploit Nov 11 14:39:26 <nessy> doublec: our suggestion is rather to tell the server what time range you want and it returns you which byte range that maps to and the byte data Nov 11 14:39:29 <doublec> and there are other optimizations we can doo Nov 11 14:39:53 <doublec> nessy, I had planned to detect if it was served by liboggz or libannodex and use the server side seek support Nov 11 14:39:59 <nessy> cool Nov 11 14:40:00 <doublec> but haven't yet got around to it Nov 11 14:40:05 <nessy> no worries :) Nov 11 14:40:14 <doublec> and I need to think how that interacts with parts of the whatwg api Nov 11 14:40:22 <kfish> even so, for cache-friendliness we'll do the byte-range translation for the data section Nov 11 14:40:23 <nessy> that would be an awesome thing to implement - and it would need support from the server, too Nov 11 14:40:58 <kfish> and it sounds like i'll need to discuss that with the fragments wg ... Nov 11 14:41:39 <nessy> kfish: there were massive discussion on the mailing list - see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/ Nov 11 14:42:16 <kfish> ok i'll check it, i thought that wg was just dealing with the uri scheme, not the transport Nov 11 14:42:21 <nessy> doublec: you do know that there is a spec in the annodex I-D about how to do the byte-range request in a way that enables proxies to cache them? Nov 11 14:42:43 <nessy> kfish: it's about getting the URI mechanism rolled out so naturally it involves everything Nov 11 14:42:50 <nessy> including the selection of tracks! Nov 11 14:42:55 <doublec> nessy, is there? Do you have a link? Nov 11 14:43:30 <nessy> doublec: section 6.2 on http://annodex.net/TR/draft-pfeiffer-temporal-fragments-03.html Nov 11 14:43:45 <doublec> thanks! Nov 11 14:44:01 <nessy> in fact, one proposal to the media fragments working group is exactly the mechanism specified there Nov 11 14:44:03 <doublec> I've tested the seeking with wikimedia, and other sites, and it works well Nov 11 14:44:18 <nessy> the other one is to empower web proxies to support time range requests directly Nov 11 14:44:24 <nessy> awesome! Nov 11 14:44:34 <nessy> do you have the procedure documented somewhere? Nov 11 14:44:45 <doublec> to seek you just need to set the currentTime attribute of the video Nov 11 14:44:53 <nessy> I'd like to point that out to all the ppl who scream 2 roundtrips are too slow :) Nov 11 14:44:58 <doublec> document.getElementsByTagName("video")[0].currentTime=20 Nov 11 14:45:03 <doublec> the value is number of seconds Nov 11 14:45:24 <nessy> coll - I think I can get it all out of the log now :) Nov 11 14:45:25 <doublec> it'll have a user interface too (a scrubber bar) soon Nov 11 14:45:33 <nessy> rockin'! Nov 11 14:45:57 <nessy> ok, let's move on - I'm starving :) Nov 11 14:46:04 <nessy> libcmml - I haven't done anything Nov 11 14:46:11 <nessy> but I want to turn it into a codec like kate Nov 11 14:46:28 <nessy> rather than doing cmml though, I'm working on a generic library for mapping text codecs into ogg Nov 11 14:46:38 <nessy> first spec is here http://wiki.xiph.org/index.php/Text_Codecs_Ogg_Mapping Nov 11 14:46:53 <nessy> still in the works - I'm discussing it lots with ogg.k.ogg.k Nov 11 14:47:24 <nessy> the first thing that will work is srt in ogg Nov 11 14:47:30 <nessy> will be really trivial with that spec Nov 11 14:47:54 <kfish> awesome! Nov 11 14:47:58 <nessy> all a "text codec" will need to do is define its header packets and its data packets Nov 11 14:48:19 <nessy> then hand these to the library that will eventually evolve Nov 11 14:48:36 <nessy> and it's encapsulated in a seekable way Nov 11 14:48:43 <nessy> is lots of fun :) Nov 11 14:49:22 <nessy> the harder part is to create a "API" or a "DOM model" for extraction that Firefox can use and know what to do with Nov 11 14:49:44 <nessy> that will be the real fun :) Nov 11 14:50:13 <nessy> doublec: I'd like to discuss that at some point with you Nov 11 14:50:22 <nessy> what can be done, what should best be done etc Nov 11 14:50:34 <doublec> nessy, sure, happy to discuss anytime Nov 11 14:50:47 <nessy> cool! Nov 11 14:51:14 <nessy> I'd also like to implement this library for Mozilla, but my time is limited and I have to achieve a whole lot before Christmas Nov 11 14:51:27 <nessy> might need to chat to Aaron about it Nov 11 14:52:02 <nessy> so, libcmml may be revived in very interesting ways :) Nov 11 14:52:26 <nessy> as for ROE - I haven't done anything with it yet Nov 11 14:52:43 <nessy> I think it will become interesting with the media fragments WG at some point Nov 11 14:52:59 <nessy> and it may be rewritten as a SMIL spec by the SMIL experts :) Nov 11 14:53:06 <nessy> but I don't mind - I just want that functionality Nov 11 14:53:40 <nessy> ok - have we any other projects to discuss? Nov 11 14:53:55 <nessy> ah yes - the new CSIRO IE plugin and DMTagger codebase Nov 11 14:54:02 <nessy> they need maintainers Nov 11 14:54:37 <nessy> I took a interview with purserj yesterday and he will publish the podcast next week - it contains an appeal for maintainers Nov 11 14:55:38 <nessy> I also talked to Cristian Adam who is now the maintainer of oggcodecs Nov 11 14:55:48 <nessy> but he has enough to do with just oggcodecs Nov 11 14:56:19 <nessy> he will however package the stand-alone transcoder app out of dmtagger as its own application Nov 11 14:56:41 <nessy> so that's pretty cool - to have a kind of ffmpeg2annodex for Windows Nov 11 14:57:17 <nessy> anything else to report? Nov 11 14:58:36 <nessy> 2. Update on standards Nov 11 14:58:59 <nessy> accessibility: Nov 11 14:59:09 <nessy> I'm continuing the work with Mozilla on that Nov 11 14:59:21 <nessy> it's been really interesting to analyse all the use cases and come up with a list of requirements Nov 11 14:59:30 <nessy> all information is here https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility Nov 11 14:59:45 <nessy> basically, it seems that kate would be perfect as the solution for basically all needs Nov 11 15:00:00 <nessy> in particular since kate has included the whole layout and presentation idea Nov 11 15:00:06 <nessy> which cmml has persistently ignored Nov 11 15:00:26 <nessy> ups, link should be https://wiki.mozilla.org/Accessibility/Video_Accessibility Nov 11 15:00:59 <nessy> there are a few things that I'd like to improve on the kate spec and some things that may be too complicated to ever implement Nov 11 15:01:29 <nessy> so basically I am considering creating a mix of TimedText, Kate and CMML as a universal text codec to cover all needs Nov 11 15:01:45 <nessy> but right now I don't even wanna go there, but just enable what exists to work Nov 11 15:02:07 <nessy> ... Nov 11 15:02:11 <nessy> anyone still listening? Nov 11 15:02:48 <nessy> moving on ... Nov 11 15:03:08 <nessy> at the W3C I am now in the media fragments, media annotations, and the timed text working groups Nov 11 15:03:39 <nessy> media fragments - as discussed above - creates a URI mechanism including protocol mechanism to deliver media fragments over the Web Nov 11 15:03:59 <nessy> recycles and develops further many ideas from our temporal URI specs Nov 11 15:04:05 * fishkandy (n=conrad@meg.dl.kuis.kyoto-u.ac.jp) has joined #annodex Nov 11 15:04:30 <nessy> media annotations - is about creating a metadata scheme for audio/video Nov 11 15:04:41 <nessy> kindof a better vorbiscomment Nov 11 15:04:45 <nessy> we'll see where that ends Nov 11 15:04:54 <doublec> you joined all the hard w3c working groups I see Nov 11 15:05:12 <nessy> timed text - has been revived and is about making a simpler timed text spec and getting implementations Nov 11 15:05:29 <nessy> I'm also continuing to watch the HTML5 video/audio specs :) Nov 11 15:05:38 <nessy> I have met Ian Hickson - rather cool dude Nov 11 15:05:45 <doublec> yeah, he's a good guy Nov 11 15:05:54 <nessy> and we had a chat about what what audio & video need Nov 11 15:06:05 <nessy> will make some contributions as I learn more about stuff Nov 11 15:06:25 <nessy> yeah - all the a/v stuff at W3C Nov 11 15:06:49 <nessy> I gave a lightning talk about what HTML5 video is missing - made quite some impact at the meeting in France Nov 11 15:07:05 <nessy> and I met many ppl from different areas - including accessibility Nov 11 15:07:36 <nessy> also I heard about a new standards process at SMPTE Nov 11 15:07:44 * kfish is now known as Guest42708 Nov 11 15:07:45 <nessy> they are also looking into timed text and annodations Nov 11 15:08:01 <nessy> not sure I have the bandwidth to follow them, too Nov 11 15:08:26 <nessy> enough on standards :) Nov 11 15:08:29 <nessy> 3. Update on collaborations Nov 11 15:08:47 * Guest42708 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Nov 11 15:08:59 * fishkandy is now known as kfish Nov 11 15:09:53 <nessy> just for everyone here who's not involved in the discussions - there are talks going on about Mozilla potentially sponsoring some ppl to do liboggplay/liboggz/theora type work and help get the media support in FF3 more stable sooner Nov 11 15:10:16 <nessy> it's really exciting to see so many new efforts in the space! Nov 11 15:10:23 <kfish> worrd Nov 11 15:10:37 <nessy> and above all this CSIRO has open sourced their remaining Annodex codebase Nov 11 15:10:58 <nessy> AIDA seems to be lost from this planet though Nov 11 15:11:19 <nessy> all I have are the old mobile phones from CISRO that have a binary version of AIDA running Nov 11 15:11:29 <doublec> what was AIDA? Nov 11 15:11:34 <kfish> it's almost like closed-source is a bad idea Nov 11 15:11:36 <nessy> a mobile phone annodex player Nov 11 15:11:46 <nessy> kfish: who would have thought ;-) Nov 11 15:12:15 <nessy> I am still of the firm opinion that all code that is written at unis and research institutes should be open sourced Nov 11 15:12:17 <kfish> doublec, a symbian player, though at least as a result of that our symbian patches went upstream Nov 11 15:12:37 <nessy> yeah, I think the most important parts are in the libraries with the symbian patches Nov 11 15:12:43 <doublec> nice Nov 11 15:12:44 <nessy> I'm not too fussed about the application Nov 11 15:13:02 <nessy> but we have two mobile phones that run symbian that we can give away to some developers at FOMS if we want Nov 11 15:13:14 <nessy> (if anyone is really interested in those old phones still) Nov 11 15:13:43 <kfish> yeah, they have to promise to maintain symbian support in all the xiph libraries, lol Nov 11 15:13:49 <nessy> lol Nov 11 15:14:12 <nessy> btw: CISRO also became a paying advisory board member of the Annodex association Nov 11 15:14:16 <kfish> as a reward, they get a circa-2005 3G phone Nov 11 15:14:27 <nessy> that's a really good outcome and a great relationship to CSIRO post their involvement with Annodex Nov 11 15:15:14 <nessy> ok, moving on... Nov 11 15:15:15 <nessy> 4. Update on FOMS Nov 11 15:15:32 <nessy> http://www.foms-workshop.org/foms2009/ Nov 11 15:15:49 <nessy> anyone here should really think about coming Nov 11 15:15:58 <nessy> we'll have all the open video codec developers there! Nov 11 15:16:19 <nessy> dirac, theora & OMS (Sun's new one) Nov 11 15:16:32 <nessy> also we'll hopefully have Mozilla and Opera present Nov 11 15:16:41 <nessy> ffmpeg with possibly two people Nov 11 15:16:47 <nessy> pitivi Nov 11 15:16:59 <nessy> xiph/annodex of course Nov 11 15:17:06 <nessy> and lots of other cool people and projects Nov 11 15:17:48 <nessy> sponsorship is a bit slow this year - not surprising under these market conditions - but we'll still have a great workshop Nov 11 15:18:16 <nessy> oh ... and there will be a really cool t-shirt !!! Nov 11 15:18:32 <nessy> next... Nov 11 15:18:34 <nessy> 5. Time/Location for AGM Nov 11 15:19:01 <nessy> should we have the AGM this time around again at FOMS? Nov 11 15:19:08 <nessy> we will soon have to prepare for election, btw Nov 11 15:20:04 <nessy> we will need ppl to stand for committee next year - think about standing! Nov 11 15:20:27 <kfish> same time (at foms) for the agm sounds good to me, and election online like previous years Nov 11 15:20:34 <nessy> awesome Nov 11 15:20:42 <nessy> can you set up that election site again? Nov 11 15:20:46 <kfish> sure Nov 11 15:20:47 <nessy> I think we need to start soon Nov 11 15:20:57 <nessy> great! Nov 11 15:21:31 <nessy> hmm... and I guess I need to send out an email for the elections Nov 11 15:21:32 <kfish> it's about 10 weeks away, the election should probably open, 1 week before the agm? Nov 11 15:21:38 <kfish> or 2 weeks? Nov 11 15:21:43 <nessy> I think it was a month, no? Nov 11 15:21:50 <kfish> a month for casting votes? Nov 11 15:22:00 <nessy> hmm... I might be mistaken Nov 11 15:22:22 <kfish> a month or more for taking nominations is good Nov 11 15:22:44 <nessy> schedule from last year: Nov 11 15:22:45 <nessy> > Dec 13 (6 weeks prior to the AGM): nominations open Nov 11 15:22:45 <nessy> > Jan 3 (3 weeks prior to the AGM): nominations closed, voting open Nov 11 15:22:45 <nessy> > Nov 11 15:22:45 <nessy> > Jan 23 (1 day prior to the AGM): voting closed Nov 11 15:22:45 <nessy> > Jan 24 (AGM): 2008 committee announced Nov 11 15:23:11 <nessy> yeah, with Christmas around Nov 11 15:23:29 <nessy> cool - I'll leave it with you, if that's ok :) Nov 11 15:24:17 <nessy> 6. Other business Nov 11 15:24:20 <kfish> cool Nov 11 15:24:24 <nessy> thanks! Nov 11 15:25:03 <nessy> anything else we should talk about? Nov 11 15:25:23 <nessy> denisc: what've you been up to recently? :) Nov 11 15:25:42 <denisc> Getting some more data into arkaiv Nov 11 15:25:42 <doublec> there needs to be tools for generating content. Any thoughts about that? Nov 11 15:25:52 <denisc> We have a person for a few months Nov 11 15:26:07 <doublec> Once browsers support playback etc people will start asking how to best get their files into that format and onto servers Nov 11 15:26:08 <denisc> Haven't abandoned arkaiv yet because it sort of works and is being used... Nov 11 15:26:53 <denisc> Sorry doublec - double conversation! I have a tool for content generation that my assistant uses; could work it into somethig more sensible Nov 11 15:26:59 <nessy> doublec: there's always ffmpeg2theora, right? Nov 11 15:27:05 <nessy> there's a gui on the mac for it Nov 11 15:27:18 <denisc> Can annotations be added as you go though? Nov 11 15:27:30 <nessy> and that app on windows that Cristian is developing will also enable that Nov 11 15:27:40 <doublec> ok, good that stuff is being done Nov 11 15:27:47 <nessy> no, the annotation/caption etc stuff has not been implemented yet Nov 11 15:28:26 <nessy> I'm hoping for some coding support somewhere :) Nov 11 15:28:29 <kfish> denisc, more work on arkaiv is great, specialised server applications are goood for us :-) Nov 11 15:28:56 <denisc> I guess so - but changing it to not rely on mod_annodex will be a challenge for me... Fun challenge though Nov 11 15:29:04 <nessy> denisc: how cross-platform is archaiv? Nov 11 15:29:22 <denisc> Depends on pylons which is CP I think? Nov 11 15:29:27 <nessy> cool Nov 11 15:29:37 <denisc> You mean as a user or as an app? Nov 11 15:29:50 <nessy> maybe we should start a web site with applications and server software for theora Nov 11 15:30:14 <denisc> I should actually do something so if there's anything simple that needs doing throw it my way Nov 11 15:30:15 <nessy> or more about theora with text codecs... Nov 11 15:30:39 <nessy> as a user, it's just a web app, right? Nov 11 15:31:14 <denisc> Yep. But I worry about cross platform issues for users - so far only the oggplay stuff on Linux works for me. Nov 11 15:31:20 <denisc> Everyone else here is mac Nov 11 15:31:42 <nessy> ff3 should solve that, right? Nov 11 15:32:10 <nessy> also, if you have somebody who would be keen to develop the IE plugin further, there will be code for them! Nov 11 15:32:12 <denisc> I don't know - arkaiv falls apart badly accessed with ff3 so that's my next task Nov 11 15:32:40 <nessy> is that because of mod_annodex? Nov 11 15:32:43 <doublec> if you need help with ff3 stuff, let me know Nov 11 15:32:55 <denisc> doublec:Cool - thanks! Nov 11 15:33:01 <kfish> and if you need help with mod_annodex / oggz-chop stuff, let me know ;-) Nov 11 15:33:17 <denisc> nessy: I guess mod_annodex is the culprit so will see what needs changing - thanks too kfish Nov 11 15:33:38 <kfish> denisc, it may be worth updating libannodex svn, i rewrote the ogg chopping part of that recently Nov 11 15:33:49 <denisc> OK - good one Nov 11 15:34:04 <kfish> not fully finished yet, but should be better than it was before Nov 11 15:34:20 <denisc> Hey - that's software though right? :) Nov 11 15:34:25 <kfish> heh Nov 11 15:34:36 * nessy makes a note to mention archaiv in list of projects next time Nov 11 15:35:23 <denisc> nessy: thanks - but I was going to abandon it until it started getting interest from other staff, a PhD student and the eduaction faculty here... Nov 11 15:35:34 <nessy> MikeS: what have you been up to these days? Nov 11 15:36:03 <nessy> denisc: there's plenty of semi abandoned things on the list :) Nov 11 15:36:38 <nessy> actually that reminds me... I should probably add your linguistic annotations to my list of use cases for text codecs... Nov 11 15:36:42 <nessy> hmm.... Nov 11 15:37:35 <nessy> mostly the requirement is to be able to attach timing information on a per-word or per-syllable basis, right? Nov 11 15:38:02 <denisc> Well not really - my needs are ethnomusicological so simple lyrics timed roughly works atm Nov 11 15:38:16 <denisc> Linguists might need that though... Nov 11 15:38:44 <nessy> ok, cool Nov 11 15:38:50 <nessy> lyrics I have covered Nov 11 15:39:36 <nessy> anything else before I close the meeting officially? Nov 11 15:39:53 <nessy> (I mean: conversations can of course continue!!) Nov 11 15:40:08 <kfish> nuthin' important from me! Nov 11 15:40:16 <denisc> Me too Nov 11 15:40:18 <nessy> everythin's important! ;) Nov 11 15:40:33 <nessy> ok - meeting officially closed :) </pre>